PD:

4th of July Celebration???? You make the call!!!!!

My biggest complaint with our city government giving money to these groups is that they don’t do their homework first.

Maine Township requires each special interest group to fill out forms that ask questions regarding the overhead costs and top salaries of the people that run the organizations. I never understood why the City of Park Ridge just hands out the money without reviewing what it is the organization is doing and how much people are getting paid to run them.

Take PADS for instance. The local Maine Township Government turned them down for funding. Why? Because there salaries and overhead ate up most of their funding. Beth Nabors had a hefty salary. Pennies on the dollar that was donated to PADS Journey to Hope made it back to the homeless.

Each Pads shelter relied on the local hospitals to do the laundry. Local restaurants and churches to make the meals provide the volunteers, etc…

Our local township governments are their to provide emergency food, shelter, help finding employment, counseling, etc… If I lost my job and did not have health insurance I could go to Maine Township and be provided with a card that would let me recieve $10.00 doctor visits.

I bet half the alderman sitting on our city council do not even know that…..

Does anyone know if the City still funds the facade improvement program?…and what might be in the hopper for it?

Anon on 02.08.10 5:09 pm:

You must have lost something in translation.

 We suggested that tough decisions will need to be made between various things. So there’s really no ability to “make the call!!!!!” on the “4th of July celebration” without knowing what that event is being matched against.

Plus, this is not our call but one that needs to be made by our City officials – although we certainly expect to opine on their calls once they are made.

PD:

What??? You are perfectly willing to ax all of the above mentioned contributions. What did you match them against? You matched them against employees. So use the same criteria with the 4th Celebration. Match what the city spends on that versus an employee. You are correct that that is in all likelyhood what it is going to come down to. So the $271 toy reference would go up to close to 300K. I am not defending some of these community services. What I do not understand is you are rock solid sure about these community services being non-essential and yet you waffle on the 4th celebration. If you really want to fund only essentials as a way of conservative fiscal policy, I do not know how on earth the 4th celebration would ever qualify as essential. Yet none of you budget hawks, including the Mayor thus far, have said a word about it.

Your last paragraph is a huge cop out. You are perfectly willing to build any model or construct related to community groups and offer your call loud and clear. I ask a very simple question and yet your response is to play dumb and state that it is not your call.

Comparing the Center of Concern with the Taste of Park Ridge is ridiculous. Unlike “Taste” the Center provides assistance to those in crisis, follow up supportive services, and support for the homebound elderly and disabled to help them retain their independence. The same services that other communities in Maine Township such as Niles and Des Plaines fund directly as part of their city budget. Perhaps Watchdog is just confused. Just because Park Ridge has chosen to use an ombudsmen relationship with the Center of Concern, at a significant cost savings, to handle those services does not make them any less essential. Or is Watchdog suggesting that Park Ridge take on the full financial responsibility of handing those human needs services?

Also, the Center of Concern does in fact publish an annual report. They also file a 990. What is it they fund? It’s not beer vendors. It’s seniors who are often alone and scared. They have a skeleton payroll of 29 employees, the vast majority of which are part time, matched with over 200 pure volunteers. http://www.centerofconcern.org/volunteer.html

If Watchdog is so gung ho the on the “essential only” concept then why not push to make all Park District functions pay as you go or submit it to a “voluntary contribution” method of funding? Is it because they truly believe that childhood endeavors are more worthy of our consideration than the reality of our twilight years? I for one see no difference and believe that both are equally worthy of our consideration. As mentioned by someone in a previous post “I think there is a great deal of hypocrisy related to non-essentials. It seems like what the word means is… something that the person using the word non-essentials does not want to pay for.”

Silence Dogood,

For the sake of argument, why doesn’t the Center of Concern post its 990s on their web site? I looked but I couldn’t find anything.

Also, are all of the services provided being done for the elderly who don’t have any family? Are the taxpayers of Park Ridge subsidizing care the families of the elderly in need could or should be providing?

I’m asking because the services might be essential but who provides them or subsidizes them is a different question.

I can’t say why it’s not on the website, but it is here and registration to get the information is free….
http://www2.guidestar.org/organizations/36-2984360/center-concern.aspx

Second as far as the family question, many of the seniors do not have families and yes many do. I agree that families should care for their aging parents. I did for fourteen years. But, many do not. Having volunteered myself, I can tell you that for whatever reason, many people with elderly family just cannot be bothered.

Since Center of Concern looks like the poster child for the community groups, I have a few questions about it that aren’t answered on its website:

1. When was it established?

2. Who established it and why?

3. Was the City providing those same services before the Center existed?

4. How much was the City spending on those services? 

5. Is the City required to provide those services?

6. Did the voters ever get to vote on the Center or its services?  

The Center looks no different than any of these other community groups, where somebody chooses their cause or hobby, forms a not-for-profit corporation, finds out that it can’t get enough donations to do what it wants, so it takes the easy route and gets the politicians to give it money.

I’m with PW on this.  And to answer 5:09’s question, the fireworks are run by the City, not some private organization, so this isn’t apples and apples.  But I’d dump them rather than cut Friday night concerts.  And I’d dump both of them rather than lay off a cop or fireman.  That’s an easy choice.

Silence:

Thank you for your post. You honed in on a point I have been trying to make and you did it very well! It seems to me that there are always services that are provided by the city that a person (or in some cases quite a few people) might deem non-essential. I have little experience with the actual workings of Center of Concern and am grateful that my family is in a position where we have had no need to avail ourselves of the services they provide – YET! Who knows what the future may hold. It would appear that some in this discussion are picking things that they do not use and simply deeming them non-essential.

As another example, I went over to the community center for a workout yesterday afternoon. The parking lot was packed!! People were parked out on western. I am not sure what was going on but there were a lot of people at the senior center. Now my parents do not even live in PR or in illinois so they have never been to the senior center. I hate taxes just like the rest of you, but I see all those cars and think it is great. I think here are a bunch of people in there later years enjoying there time rather than rattling around the house watching TV. To be Clear, I am not saying that COC or the senior center of any of the others are by any means perfect.

You brought up the Park District which I have done before. I brought up the 4th of July celebration. I think both of these things are great and I do not want them cut but PLEASE!!!!! To scream about meals on wheels being “non-essential” (at 6,000 per year) yet not bat an eye about how we support the park district is terribly inconsistent.

5:09AM:

Thanks for your last sentance. That is the answer I was looking for. So to be clear as we continue down this budget path, you want the concerts and the 4th celebration on the chopping block as non-essential events.

As to your point about being run by the city, it is nothing but a bunch of crap but if it makes you feel better so be it!! In one part of your post you ask did the voters of PR have a chance to vote on the Center or it’s services as if that is shocking. OK…Did you get to vote on the 4th celebration or the number of fireworks they use? Did you get to pick the vendors? How about this one….the city spent over 400K on trucks recently. I must have missed the vote on that one as well. The truth is you did get to vote on it. You voted on it when you voted for Mayor and Aldermen – that is just the way it works.

7:00 a.m., why don’t those do-gooders at the Park Ridge Ministerial Association start a volunteer group that provides meals on wheels funded by donations. Ever since their PADS deal fell through, they can’t be earning enough grace just by doing those Sunday suppers at St. Paul.

Taste of Park Ridge can sponsor concerts in the park.

I agree the city should not be funding these organizations without any accountability, but my experience is that many non-profits don’t have the resources to determine “fair market value” of the services they provide, let alone write contracts or send out invoices. However, most DO have the ability and the resources to write grant proposals. If the city wants to provide funding to any organization, there should be a formal grant application process, and organizations should provide a 990 and a recent financial audit. The organziation should also provide a report of what was done with the funds at the end of the grant period as a condition for any further funding.

Anon: 5:09

As to questions 1-4, I don’t know it was long before my time. I’m sure there are folks in town that could answer those questions.

5. Is the City required to provide those services?

No and now back to my original point. Just as the city is not required to keep the library open in evening or maintain a website or mail the Spokesman to your house several times a year. Do you know that in one of the youth baseball leagues in Des Plaines the volunteer parents are required to maintain the ball fields? Again it would appear that this is not about the question of essentials, it is just something you have randomly deemed unworthy.

6. Did the voters ever get to vote on the Center or its services?

No. Nor did they vote on the level or type of salt purchased this winter. Nor did they vote on vehicles purchased for city use. Nor did they select whether or not to pay for a city website. As much as we all would like to participate in every decision made at City Hall, the Park District and all other governmental bodies our form of government does not work that way. We choose our representatives to research those subjects and use their best judgment to answer those questions. Your remedy for non performance is to choose someone else.

Your last statement is very interesting; “And I’d dump both of them rather than lay off a cop or fireman.” You sound like one of the budget protecting city managers that have played that song so many times before. I absolutely agree that public safety should be the last thing cut, but why is that always the first thing thrown out when discussions surface about staff levels. When former City Manager Tim Scheunke was asked to come up with staff reductions, he immediately surrendered an ambulance crew. Why? Because he and it seems you do not want to cut any fat in the City’s day to day operations. So the textbook solution to that is to throw out the most valued personnel “cop or fireman”, watch the Aldermen squirm and then turn the discussion elsewhere. There is far more in the city budget then individual cops and firemen.

If you want to run a 501(c)(3) and can’t raise your own private funds, then your running a service that people don’t want or you don’t know what your doing.

The one alderman that keeps on bitching about too many employees is Bach, but he has yet to identify any employees that he wants canned and the amount of savings it would cause.

Want priorities? Water, sewers, cops, firemen, streets and sidewalks, and the minimum number of administrators to hold it all together.

Where’s Don Bach? He’s the guy that wants to cut staff, cut staff, cut staff. Let him tell us who will be cut and how much it will save.

Or we could just raise taxes so all of these wonderful community groups who provide all these essential services could be fully funded, without having to seek private contributions at all.

Thank you Fred. And, well said.
All of these charitable organizations are great… well, not all of them but that is beside the point. Anyway, unless and until someone can verify that the CoC or any of the other charities or community groups was set up with the City’s express desire and willingness to fund them then the groups should all be on their own when it comes to raising money for their operations. It is wonderful that the CoC and the others do what they do BUT if they started their organizations based on what THEY saw as a need in the community and THEY thought that they could raise private funds to conduct their activities but that didn’t work out, well, then that’s just too bad. Maybe they were simply wrong about the need or the community’s willingness to fund them. Regardless, their failure to be self sustaining doesn’t give them any claim to taxpayer funds.

Anon: 9:25

“Anyway, unless and until someone can verify that the CoC or any of the other charities or community groups was set up with the City’s express desire and willingness to fund them then the groups should all be on their own when it comes to raising money for their operations.”

Really? Says who? Since you are so into “express desire” exactly what section of the city code are you citing?

To all:

By what legal or other authority do these various private community groups have a claim on public funds?

Somebody questioned the library, but there is a library district that is legally entitled to our property tax revenues.

I, for one, don’t want my tax dollars to fund somebody else’s hobby or charity. If they can’t raise private funds, they should shut their doors. If those services are so “essential,” either some governmental body will start performing them, or some competent private provider will fill the gap.

Are there no prisons? Now workhouses? Who needs the Center of Concern?

Seriously, some people (including me) think the CoC is a good thing and worthy of public $. Others don’t and would rather see the money spent on the library or fireworks or concerts or maybe nothing at all but police, fire and snowplowing. Perhaps those who own Suburbans or Hummers think snowplowing is unnecessary. Vive la difference!

Dogood is right: our elected officials make these calls. That’s how it works in a republic. So if any of you wants to put your oar in the water on public spending, you might want to call or email the mayor and/or your alderman, or perhaps write a letter to the editor of the H-A, or maybe show up at a city council meeting and say your piece.

Posting here is fine, too, but it’s not going to get it done at the end of the day. And I doubt it’s going to change any other poster’s mind.

You people crack me up. The complaints about the City staff and other public employees are non-stop, and yet you’d rather have our housebound elderly cared for by more highly paid bureaucrats instead of the skeleton crew of modestly paid staffers plus hundreds of ardent volunteers? Oh, wait; you don’t want these services to be provided by the gub-mint. You want families (read, middle-aged sandwich generation women who are raising kids and working full-time) and if they don’t, well, put the old folks out on an ice floe, right? Or would you rather just wait until you can smell the bodies? That might put a crimp in the neighbors’ quality of life, don’t you think? Even the right-wingers know it’s a better deal for the taxpayer to fund these charitable programs without having to pay more bureaucrats. Volunteers and their few paid leaders work their hearts out, 50, 60 hours a week or more. We can hardly get City staff to do a day’s work for a straight-time day’s pay! What’s more, a majority of the Center of Concern’s budget is through grants which are mandated pass-thru; i.e. they are earmarked for direct services, not staff salaries or whatever you fear. The very modest salaries that are paid to the skeleton crews of charities come out of what’s left, and without at least a few stable, permanent employees to hold the fort, you cannot hope for efficient orchestration of volunteer efforts and miniscule other funds. It’s easy to say we should stop supporting charitable efforts that don’t personally wring our hearts – empathy (not sympathy, empathy) seems to be the one thing in shorter supply than money. But a responsible public official’s job is to foresee the unintended consequences of any decision. If the penny-wise, pound-foolish prevail in re Park Ridge service groups/charities, what will the real consequences be? Oh, and P.S. The Park District is not funded through the City of Park Ridge. It’s a separate taxing body, and when you take a look at the tiny percentage of real estate taxes that go to the Park District, you’ll laugh. Further, unlike the City, the Park District is strictly limited in what it can spend without going to referendum. And the cherry on top? The Park District’s union agreed without a fight to forego raises this year for the common good. What a concept! THE COMMON GOOD!!!!

Oracle:

Very good post. I agree with you about the PD and the amount we are taxed versus what we get. You are also correct to point out it is a seperate taximb body. My family and I love the Park District and use many of the services they offer on a fee and non-fee basis. The only reason that I ever bring it up in this discusion is that while not a huge amount of money, it is a great deal more (like way more!!!!!) than 271,000. The services provided by the Park District would most certainly fall into the catagory of non-essentials and yet most here are perfectly willing to have their tax dollars support it. I fail to see the logic in that.

Says who? Says me…
But I will be honest, I guess I agree with the good Padre McKenzie. And I do talk to the Mayor and my Alderman and other Aldermen and I do go to meetings so I think my pov is known. So it is what it is… and if I don’t like it in the end I will use my vote to make my point and if I am in the minority, that’s OK too. All I want is a say in how MY taxes are spent/disbursed. And I can have it at City Hall or here or at Starbucks/Panera. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Oracle At Delphi,

I’m sorry, but I simply must throw some gasoline on this debate fire…

“You people crack me up. The complaints about the City staff and other public employees are non-stop, and yet you’d rather have our housebound elderly cared for by more highly paid bureaucrats instead of the skeleton crew of modestly paid staffers plus hundreds of ardent volunteers?”

“Who/How” is the second question to be addressed. The first question is “What?”; as in, what exactly are the essential services the government/taxpayers should be funding.

“Oh, wait; you don’t want these services to be provided by the gub-mint. You want families (read, middle-aged sandwich generation women who are raising kids and working full-time)”

Uh oh, *somebody’s* sexist bloomers are a’showin’…not to mention the implied presumption that “women’s work” should be government subsidized.

“and if they don’t, well, put the old folks out on an ice floe, right?”

Do we have ice floes in Park Ridge? The “unmentionable task” would probably be accomplished quicker if we just stuck them out in the middle of traffic near Maine South during rush hour, don’t you think?

“Or would you rather just wait until you can smell the bodies? That might put a crimp in the neighbors’ quality of life, don’t you think?”

Only temporarily; it’s not like O’Hare expansion or anything.

“Even the right-wingers know it’s a better deal for the taxpayer to fund these charitable programs without having to pay more bureaucrats.”

Sure, but a REAL, honest-to-goodness wingnut doesn’t want taxpayers to fund ANYthing of a social service nature, or did you mean to call conservatives spineless skin-flint-y compromisers?

“Volunteers and their few paid leaders work their hearts out, 50, 60 hours a week or more.”

Suckers!

“We can hardly get City staff to do a day’s work for a straight-time day’s pay!”

G’dang union contracts!

“What’s more, a majority of the Center of Concern’s budget is through grants which are mandated pass-thru; i.e. they are earmarked for direct services, not staff salaries or whatever you fear.”

Ah-hah! So you admit it! CoC is getting OTHER gub-mint hand-outs too!

“The very modest salaries that are paid to the skeleton crews of charities come out of what’s left, and without at least a few stable, permanent employees to hold the fort, you cannot hope for efficient orchestration of volunteer efforts and miniscule other funds.”

Have you ever met a PTO/PTA president Mom? They could show you how to accomplish the above in about an hour…

“It’s easy to say we should stop supporting charitable efforts that don’t personally wring our hearts – empathy (not sympathy, empathy) seems to be the one thing in shorter supply than money.”

I have plenty of empathy for those who find themselves on the receiving end of gub-mint subsidies. Just this past holiday sing, I was feeling real real sorry for some of the parents whose kids are in the D64 instrumental music program, which is subsidized through taxpayer dollars; if those solos were the result of home practice, my God, my heart goes out to those parents!

“But a responsible public official’s job is to foresee the unintended consequences of any decision.”

Or ask for a task force, or commission, or blue ribbon panel, or advisory board, or staff recommendation.

“If the penny-wise, pound-foolish prevail in re Park Ridge service groups/charities, what will the real consequences be?”

A renewed sense of familial responsibility? Just a w.a.g.

“Oh, and P.S. The Park District is not funded through the City of Park Ridge. It’s a separate taxing body, and when you take a look at the tiny percentage of real estate taxes that go to the Park District, you’ll laugh.”

How much does it cost to cut grass?

“Further, unlike the City, the Park District is strictly limited in what it can spend without going to referendum.”

Thank the Lord!

“And the cherry on top? The Park District’s union agreed without a fight to forego raises this year for the common good. What a concept! THE COMMON GOOD!!!!”

Excellent! But I do think you may want to prepare yourself to get that cherry popped during the next round of negotiations.

By the way, did I miss the part where you discussed all the contributions to community groups, non-profits and charities BESIDES the CoC?

I think the posts here have drifted away from the core subject — what is a core service?

I belief is that municipalities have strayed too far from the core misson: police, fire and public works. Supporting things like the “taste” or social services are well intented, but should not be supported by local government. Places like the “Center of Concern” and others typically get funding from the state, the township, the city and private interests. Plus, Maine Twsp. also provides its own level of social services — it just seems like their is a duplication of services and too many taxing bodies subsidizing its operations…

The social service arena is just one aspect of the conversation. I think at the end of the day, a majority of people expect the following from their municipal government (not necessarily) in this order:
– trash is picked up once a week
– streets are in good shape
– infrastructure is in good shape (water/sewer)
– when I call 911, police/fire show up in a timely fashion

Everything else is gingerbread…and should be supported by private interests. I think we all agree that the “taste” and “fireworks” are nice to have in a community, but is it the role of municipal government to provide those services. I would say “no” — especially when the City’s infrastructure is crumbling and there is always a street that could repaved or crack sealed…

Why should ANY government give ANY money to a charity? In good times OR bad times? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Anon. 2:53-

In many places, trash is not “picked up once a week.” People engage private contractors or take it to the landfill themselves. Why should this service be provided (or subsidized) by the city?

There are private security services. Perhaps we should get rid of the police and just let people fend for themselves and/or hire it done. Why should this service be provided for free by the city?

The fire department already makes citizens pay for ambulence service. Firefighting could be charged on an as-needed basis, too.

Why should the city provide water? Many municipalities are served by private, for-profit water companies and the customers pay as they go/drink/wash.

Park Ridge provides these services (and more, such as tree care for parkway trees) because that’s what they’ve been doing for years.

It’s time to take a fresh–and hard–look at every city service and subsidy. Each needs to be justified and funded. Otherwise the budget mess will never get resolved. Can we rely on the current City Council to attend to this? Of course not. Can Mayor Dave browbeat the Council or at least the staff into moving in this direction? Sure he can.

But will he?

Fr. Mac:

“Can we rely on the current City Council to attend to this? Of course not.”

You just hurt little Robert Ryan’s feelings, and may have pushed Don Bach’s and Frank Wsol’s noses out of joint at the same time. Just becuase they mismanage the City doesn’t mean you can criticize and blame them. That’s not playing nice nice.

Since Schmidt beat their boy Frimark (What did you get for your $800 contribution, Bobby?), they’ve done nothing but try to throw wrenches in his way. And they would sell Park Ridge down the river if they thought it would undermine Schmidt.